All Things Recession, Part 3 with Brock

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:00:15

Welcome back to the confident money podcast.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:00:17

We have Brock here as special guest for our third episode with him now

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:00:23

Brock and I are going to be talking all about student loans and it's a little

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:00:28

bit of everything, a little bit of the moratorium, a little bit about making,

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:00:32

you know, the best choices and informed decisions, and also how student loans

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:00:36

play into the bigger picture into refinancing into debt and mortgage plans.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:00:41

So Brock welcome back.

Brock: 00:00:43

Hey, glad to be.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:00:45

Yeah, so Brock you and I were talking before we got

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:00:48

started, because I am really lucky.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:00:50

And I don't know if a lot of our listeners know this, I have gone

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:00:52

through mortgage debt, divorce, debt, credit card, debt, car loan, debt.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:00:56

uh, but I do not have any student loan debt, but you do.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:00:59

And the majority, I think of millennials have student loan debt, and it's something

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:01:04

that has felt really crushing at times.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:01:07

So

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:01:08

I wanted to just kind of talk about what that looks like and you know,

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:01:10

like what you did for schooling.

Brock: 00:01:12

Yeah, absolutely.

Brock: 00:01:13

So I went, um, which I think was great for me.

Brock: 00:01:18

And I think you also did.

Brock: 00:01:19

Um, I did my first couple years at a community college, uh, just

Brock: 00:01:23

did my generals and everything at my, um, around my hometown.

Brock: 00:01:27

Um, it was great because it really did help with that

Brock: 00:01:29

transition into the college life.

Brock: 00:01:31

But also I was able to get my first two years done pretty much debt.

Brock: 00:01:35

There's a lot of different public programs out there.

Brock: 00:01:38

A lot of good grants and everything available at the community

Brock: 00:01:41

colleges for the courses.

Brock: 00:01:43

Um, so I was fortunate to leave with zero, but I did, did go to an

Brock: 00:01:48

out-of-state college in Arizona after.

Brock: 00:01:51

So, um, my last two years of my undergrad and also my graduate

Brock: 00:01:56

program were at Arizona state.

Brock: 00:01:59

And I did leave there roughly around like 122,000.

Brock: 00:02:05

And then obviously interest is accrued.

Brock: 00:02:08

I did do some different repayment programs early on in my career when I

Brock: 00:02:12

wasn't quite making, uh, at the level that I am now through that repayment

Brock: 00:02:17

and navigating that and everything.

Brock: 00:02:19

I have also since consolidated, which I do think that we're

Brock: 00:02:22

gonna touch on, um, different consolidation options and everything.

Brock: 00:02:26

and currently I am actually still making payments even though of the Mo moratorium.

Brock: 00:02:31

And that's just because I'm just trying to cut back at that debt.

Brock: 00:02:35

That's my main, my main debt that I, that I have myself before I,

Brock: 00:02:39

I get into the mortgage realm in, uh, hopefully the next couple years

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:02:43

No, I think that's really smart.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:02:45

And I think.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:02:46

We can actually just segue into, I, I, I wanna talk about the moratorium

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:02:50

first and what that looks like with payments since you just brought that up.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:02:53

So I'm a really big proponent.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:02:55

I know that there are people out there that are just, when you're feeling crushed

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:02:59

by student loan debt, and you don't feel like there's a way out, or you have that

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:03:03

and you have credit card debt and maybe you have a mortgage or you just have

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:03:05

all of these things and it feels like nothing's ever going to be paid off.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:03:09

It can be really nice.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:03:11

If you are in a spot to be paying off debt, especially right now

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:03:14

with the moratorium on federal loans to be using this time to

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:03:18

prioritize debt payoff accordingly.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:03:20

And we talked about debt payoff in an earlier episode, I think in season two.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:03:25

And in season two, we talked about.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:03:27

Listing out your debts, listing out your interest, rates, your balances

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:03:31

and your minimum, monthly payments, and prioritizing your payoffs

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:03:34

based on the highest interest.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:03:37

And if you really wanted kind of a win right out of the bat, sometimes you could

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:03:40

pick your lowest balance, get that one paid off quickly so that you have a win

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:03:45

to kind of, you know, tucking your pocket.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:03:46

And then dive right back in with your highest interest and start

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:03:49

chipping away at that, because that saves you the most money.

Brock: 00:03:53

You know, another good point on that too, is if, because we have this

Brock: 00:03:58

freeze on the interest, on everything, on your repayment, collections, anything

Brock: 00:04:02

like that, what's happening to your credit at this point is it's, you're

Brock: 00:04:07

getting this account and it's extending your credit life, which is great.

Brock: 00:04:11

My credit life is the number of accounts I have and the.

Brock: 00:04:16

Is great because of my student loans, they are my longest accounts.

Brock: 00:04:20

Um, and so what they've done is they've built my credit history

Brock: 00:04:24

because I haven't missed any payments and it's a responsible debt.

Brock: 00:04:28

So by freezing that right now in the moratorium, all I'm doing is helping

Brock: 00:04:32

myself almost because it's getting my credit profile to be more strong.

Brock: 00:04:38

And they're seeing more payment history, even though you're not making payments,

Brock: 00:04:42

you're not, not making payment.

Brock: 00:04:44

And so it's really helping that credit profile as well.

Brock: 00:04:47

And I agree, Caitlin completely like student loans are responsible

Brock: 00:04:52

debt, much like a mortgage.

Brock: 00:04:54

Um, they're not looked at the same way that, you know, vehicle loan, debt, uh,

Brock: 00:04:59

personal loan debt, you know, all your other debts credit card debt of course,

Brock: 00:05:02

out there, um, which isn't viewed as of.

Brock: 00:05:06

I wouldn't say it's irresponsible by any means, but it's not a responsible debt.

Brock: 00:05:11

Um, and so when we pay all those other ones off our debt to income does get

Brock: 00:05:17

is helped a little bit because we're getting all of that other high interest,

Brock: 00:05:22

high yield debt kind of paid down first.

Brock: 00:05:24

So I completely agree holding off on making payments on, you know,

Brock: 00:05:29

your responsible debt, do it.

Brock: 00:05:31

You're freezing your interest.

Brock: 00:05:32

You're not accruing anything you are accruing on your other.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:05:36

Right.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:05:36

Exactly.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:05:36

And I think that for a lot of people, if this was a time where with the

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:05:41

moratorium, maybe you feel like you have a little bit of breathing room

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:05:43

for the first time in a few years

Brock: 00:05:45

And we need to.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:05:47

Right.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:05:47

No, it's, it's a big sign though, that you should be taking the time

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:05:51

while you have it to look at, are you building that side hustle?

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:05:55

I know that that's the quintessential thing to be doing right now, but

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:05:57

are you building that side hustle?

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:05:59

Have you advocated for yourself?

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:06:00

Have you job hopped, have you found a way to increase your income while

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:06:04

simultaneously setting yourself up to be in a better spot when

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:06:08

those loan payments do resume?

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:06:10

and I know that you and I were talking about this Brock, we do anticipate,

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:06:13

and of course we don't have a crystal ball, but we do anticipate that this

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:06:17

moratorium will most likely be extended.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:06:18

Again.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:06:19

We've seen it extended, I think four times now.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:06:21

Um,

Brock: 00:06:21

it's officially, I think about just over two years old at this.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:06:25

Yeah.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:06:26

Which has been great for so many people.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:06:28

And we've, you know, seen some things tossed around, like maybe

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:06:30

there's gonna be a $10,000 student loan forgiveness, which for a lot

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:06:34

of people is a drop in the bucket.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:06:35

It's still absolutely better than nothing.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:06:36

And might help chip away at some of that interest that you've accrued.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:06:39

Because I think that's really the kicker for a lot of people.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:06:41

And that's what really.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:06:43

Chases me is your interest.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:06:45

If, if your balance would just be what it was and you had a low interest and

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:06:50

you could pay it down, that's one thing.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:06:51

But there are people that have been paying on their student loans for

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:06:53

20 years, that owe more than they owed when the student loans began.

Brock: 00:06:57

Oh, I I'm a perfect example.

Brock: 00:06:59

I owe, you know, more than when I started, um, more recently I've been able to

Brock: 00:07:04

make bigger payments and everything, but a lot of these are interest.

Brock: 00:07:08

Um, luckily, you know, when you do have those federal loans and everything, you do

Brock: 00:07:11

get an interest cap and it's not variable.

Brock: 00:07:14

Um, but that's not all loans.

Brock: 00:07:15

I mean, there are some federal loans out there, especially like plus loans,

Brock: 00:07:18

graduate loans, everything like that with a variable interest at over time.

Brock: 00:07:23

So you need to look at whether your loans subsidized, not subsidized.

Brock: 00:07:27

And then on, in addition, we have had two years.

Brock: 00:07:30

Of not having to pay for these, but what's happened in those two years,

Brock: 00:07:35

our housing prices have gone up.

Brock: 00:07:37

Gas has gone up.

Brock: 00:07:38

Food has gone up.

Brock: 00:07:40

I mean, the, the stocks have gone down.

Brock: 00:07:43

We have all of these other costs as a result of COVID and just the general

Brock: 00:07:48

economy that this hasn't been in people's budgets for the last two years.

Brock: 00:07:52

All, you know what I mean?

Brock: 00:07:54

There's a lot of people who did take advantage of this Mo.

Brock: 00:07:57

And for them to end that moratorium, it's gonna be very political, honestly.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:08:02

No.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:08:03

Absolutely.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:08:03

And my, I mean, hope upon hopes would be that with inflation,

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:08:07

with looming recession, with everything that we're seeing, that

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:08:10

they will continue to extend it.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:08:11

Otherwise, it feels like everything will just be piled on all at

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:08:14

once, which I think will not help any of our economic situations.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:08:19

So with that, and with, you know, again, these only apply to federal

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:08:23

loans for the moratorium currently, and it's a freeze on payments on interest

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:08:27

and collections, which is great.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:08:29

But for a lot of people that may or may not impact you at all,

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:08:33

because you may have consolidated, you may have private loans.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:08:37

And so I know we wanted to talk about, um, a consolidating and B those offers that

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:08:42

you get in the mail brought, cause you brought up a really good point about that.

Brock: 00:08:46

I think all over.

Brock: 00:08:47

Um, and they, they do, they know who, who to target, you know, your

Brock: 00:08:50

recent college grads, you're, uh, people who are struggling to do

Brock: 00:08:54

the repayments and everything.

Brock: 00:08:55

And, um, there's a lot of private companies out there that will kind

Brock: 00:08:58

of claim to reconsolidate your loans.

Brock: 00:09:00

But in essence, what you're doing, you're also refinancing and you're

Brock: 00:09:04

refinancing with a private lender.

Brock: 00:09:06

So essentially what they're doing is they're paying.

Brock: 00:09:08

Your federal loans, and now you have a loan with them.

Brock: 00:09:11

Um, the problem here is now the federal moratorium and everything

Brock: 00:09:17

that's outside their scope.

Brock: 00:09:18

They are not, you know, they don't have control over freezing those loans.

Brock: 00:09:22

So your repayment terms are much less flexible.

Brock: 00:09:26

So definitely be cognizant of when you're looking at these offers

Brock: 00:09:30

to consolidate and refinance.

Brock: 00:09:32

Student loans, make sure it's it's in your benefit and it works for your, you know,

Brock: 00:09:37

how you project to pay your loans back in the, you know, in the coming years.

Brock: 00:09:42

I think also another thing is that they, you know, we keep hearing

Brock: 00:09:46

about student loan, forgiveness and everything like that.

Brock: 00:09:49

And I would err on the side of caution to, to, uh, consumers

Brock: 00:09:53

that, you know, it's a lot of talk.

Brock: 00:09:57

I don't believe that it's gonna apply to hardly anybody.

Brock: 00:10:00

Of course, different sectors and different industries are gonna

Brock: 00:10:03

have, you know, much more ability to forgive some loans than others.

Brock: 00:10:08

Um, but I will say it's not a debt to kind of think is gonna go away.

Brock: 00:10:13

It's just, you know, it's a lot more flexible of a debt.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:10:17

Well, and I think with that too, Brock, if your student

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:10:21

loan interest rate is relatively low, and we're looking at that grand

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:10:25

scheme of like your finances and your.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:10:27

I don't see anything wrong for the most part, depending on your personal financial

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:10:31

goals with not prioritizing paying those off, if you've paid off your credit

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:10:35

card debt, if all of your other high interest debt is gone and you're in a

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:10:38

good financial spot paying what you need to be paying and just kind of letting

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:10:43

it do its thing, like it, it just is.

Brock: 00:10:45

push it out at least 20 years.

Brock: 00:10:47

We know that repayment terms get a lot better after the 20 year mark

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:10:51

Yeah, no, I, I think that that can be.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:10:55

Overlooked by people, because I think they're, despite it not

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:10:57

necessarily being a bad debt, right.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:10:59

Because I don't, I don't believe in good or bad debts necessarily.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:11:02

There's not like an inherent moral value, uh, which, but I think so many

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:11:06

people attach a moral value to student loans, to, you know, having debt to their

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:11:11

student loan debt, continuing to increase.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:11:12

Cause like, like I said, that's the thing that just like kills

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:11:15

me is it just keeps increasing.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:11:17

And so it can feel like there's no way out.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:11:19

And so if you decide, which I think a lot of people have.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:11:22

Hey, this just, isn't a huge priority.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:11:24

If I'm making my payments, when I need to be making them, if the interest

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:11:27

rate's not something ridiculous, or if you've refinanced or consolidated or done

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:11:31

any of these things so that you have a rate, that's, I'm gonna say tolerable.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:11:34

I.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:11:35

I'm not looking to pay my mortgage off because my mortgage

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:11:37

interest rate is under 4%.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:11:39

I'm investing that money instead.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:11:41

So I'm making my money work in other ways.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:11:43

And I look at student loans that are lower interest.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:11:45

Now you have something that's like 10 or 11% different story, you know, that's kind

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:11:49

of in between mortgage and credit card, depending on that rate, I'd probably look

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:11:53

at trying to pay that off or refinancing or doing anything along those lines.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:11:57

But I think because of that brought so many people are

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:12:02

jaded when it comes to student.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:12:04

And what really bothers me.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:12:06

I'm gonna get some hate on this.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:12:07

Probably.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:12:08

Dave Ramsey is such a big proponent of, you know, you

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:12:10

shouldn't take out debt for school.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:12:11

You should be able, you should wait until you can pay it outright.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:12:14

If all of our doctors or medical professionals or, you know, anyone that

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:12:19

requires significant schooling were to wait until they could afford school.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:12:24

A it's super privileged.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:12:26

B, like, how are you going to do that?

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:12:28

How are you gonna have access to three, $400,000 that you can just drop on school?

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:12:32

Like that's a house in many PLA or half a house, depending on where you are.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:12:36

Um, you know, how are you just gonna be able to drop that on schooling?

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:12:39

And then you've lost so much earning potential.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:12:41

And so I think when you're looking at student loans and taking them on.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:12:46

Because you and I have both had experiences with this, you know, I had

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:12:48

a friend that was a lawyer that made, had over $200,000 in student loans.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:12:53

And everyone thinks that being a lawyer is lucrative.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:12:55

It's not necessarily lucrative unless you're working for a large

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:12:58

firm or in certain industries.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:13:00

And so weighing like social work as well, right.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:13:02

Weighing the pros and cons.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:13:04

Of your career path, your desires, your income against what you're looking

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:13:09

at, taking out in student loans and what that's going to look like for

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:13:12

yourself, I think is important to make an informed decision because

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:13:16

student loans are a tool to get you an education and you need to be the one

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:13:21

to assess if that's the right path.

Brock: 00:13:24

very similar into like a mortgage.

Brock: 00:13:28

We can't wait to get a house until we save up enough money for a house.

Brock: 00:13:32

It's just not, it doesn't work.

Brock: 00:13:33

And it also doesn't work for us.

Brock: 00:13:35

Like, like you mentioned, these student loans and everything, um,

Brock: 00:13:39

they allow us access to get the education we need, get to our earning

Brock: 00:13:43

potential a lot earlier on in life.

Brock: 00:13:45

And then in addition, Student cost is just gonna go up.

Brock: 00:13:50

We've seen tuition, just keep skyrocketing.

Brock: 00:13:52

See, since we, even us were in college, you know what I mean?

Brock: 00:13:55

So you wait any much longer and then those you're gonna be waiting forever.

Brock: 00:13:59

And then life gets in the way, everything like that.

Brock: 00:14:01

So my, my advice, and I think you, you share this already is be informed,

Brock: 00:14:07

be informed, know what, you know, you kind of wanna get outta your career,

Brock: 00:14:10

do the exploration, do the tourists, talk to professionals in that industry.

Brock: 00:14:15

That is what I.

Brock: 00:14:17

can't stress enough is talk to professionals in the industry.

Brock: 00:14:21

You're looking into ask them about their experience.

Brock: 00:14:24

They'll probably be more than happy to, you know, go

Brock: 00:14:28

through what they went through.

Brock: 00:14:29

Um, and, and kind of let you know, and make sure that, you know, when you do get

Brock: 00:14:34

outta college, that there's a, a direct need for what you're doing, because too

Brock: 00:14:39

often, you know, and colleges, don't kind of warn you about this is they.

Brock: 00:14:44

They'll gladly give you loans and everything for these, uh, you know,

Brock: 00:14:49

professions or industries that really might not be, hiring as much as, as

Brock: 00:14:55

other professions and you don't wanna really necessarily take out so much debt

Brock: 00:14:59

for something that you're gonna have a, you're gonna struggle the whole time that

Brock: 00:15:03

you're in this career to pay it back.

Brock: 00:15:05

It's unfortunate for some, because you know, some people are very, very

Brock: 00:15:08

passionate in the fields that they go into, but they're very expensive.

Brock: 00:15:13

Um, you know, just, just be informed.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:15:16

Well, and I, I think too, I know that that's something

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:15:18

that I've seen a lot of the financial independence groups that I'm in are.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:15:22

You know, people that are in social work or in a lot of, unfortunately

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:15:26

these caring positions, right.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:15:28

Where there's absolutely an inherent value, but unfortunately there's not a

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:15:32

monetary value that matches the amount of work education, et cetera, that it

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:15:37

takes to make it in that career path.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:15:40

And I think that.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:15:41

You brought up a really good point of talking to people in the

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:15:43

industry, because if you're gonna go to a college, colleges are gonna

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:15:46

want to make themselves look good.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:15:47

Like we have, you know, these great rates we have, you know, this is the

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:15:51

number of people that are employed within one year in their field.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:15:54

This is everything that goes with it.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:15:56

And I think talking to people that are actually doing it and getting an idea

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:16:00

of what their day to day looks like.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:16:02

Because I think I know that when I was 18, actually I started college in 17

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:16:06

when I was 17 and I was going to school.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:16:08

I had completely different ideas of what working in the field that I was

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:16:12

going to school for would look like.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:16:15

and I didn't realize, and we have the internet, like we had the internet then,

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:16:18

but we have the internet so much more now.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:16:20

And so many more connections that reaching out on LinkedIn or reaching

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:16:24

out to the alumni, you know, that graduated from your school.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:16:27

There are so many things that you could be doing to make sure

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:16:30

it's the right path for you.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:16:31

And I think with what you did and what I did.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:16:33

As we both did our general education at a community college, a it was less

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:16:37

expensive B it allowed me time to grow and mature and decide a little bit more.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:16:43

If the path I was going down was right.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:16:45

And I was also able to move out on, well, this was 2008.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:16:49

I was able to move out on my own with roommates and afford to make it, um, my

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:16:54

same apartment that was $700 is now 2100.

Brock: 00:16:57

I don't even wanna talk about.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:16:58

So I couldn't have done that now, which kills me a little bit.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:17:02

It kills me a lot of bit inside, but that being said, community college

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:17:05

allowed me to not have student loans from those first few years, which was great.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:17:10

And it, let me take it at my pace.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:17:12

Actually take a ton of online courses, which was amazing and it let me mature.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:17:16

And I think that was really important because who I wanted to be at 18 was

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:17:20

different than who I wanted to be at 20.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:17:22

And it changes so much during that timeframe.

Brock: 00:17:26

took 10 college graduates, Aged whatever and asked them, did

Brock: 00:17:32

they end up graduating with what they went their first major or what they

Brock: 00:17:36

thought that they were gonna graduate with when they started college?

Brock: 00:17:39

Nine out of 10 of them will tell you?

Brock: 00:17:40

No.

Brock: 00:17:41

Um, I think that those first couple years, there's a reason that they're

Brock: 00:17:44

general, you know, go in, figure out what you like, figure out the profession,

Brock: 00:17:49

find where you're passionate about.

Brock: 00:17:50

A lot of us don't even know where we're passionate.

Brock: 00:17:53

We're still growing.

Brock: 00:17:54

Um, but those, you know, keep in mind that you're pulling out these loans and to you.

Brock: 00:17:59

It's for great it's for great, uh, education, but make sure it's,

Brock: 00:18:04

you know, applying to what you want to for the rest of your life.

Brock: 00:18:08

but you know, there's such great career advice and everything.

Brock: 00:18:11

Um, either through college or just general financial aid offices at,

Brock: 00:18:15

at the college that you're looking at, um, they're pretty transparent.

Brock: 00:18:19

Uh, a lot of them do work directly for the federal, um, government funded programs.

Brock: 00:18:26

So they will kind of be you.

Brock: 00:18:28

Black and white with you.

Brock: 00:18:30

Um, as far as what the repayment looks like and everything, and you know, it,

Brock: 00:18:35

there's always reform there's reform all the time with, uh, how student

Brock: 00:18:39

loan, uh, loans are set up through the government and everything like that.

Brock: 00:18:44

So I think we still have yet to see, um, even more changes in the future.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:18:49

No.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:18:49

I agree.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:18:50

And I, I think that at the end of the day, a I'm really over vilifying

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:18:56

debt, I think almost all of us.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:18:59

And I don't have the percentages on that, but so many of us have, or have had debt

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:19:05

and student loans are such a big part of that for gen X, gen Z.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:19:11

To an extent and millennials.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:19:13

And I think that while we have seen a resurgence in individuals not getting

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:19:18

college degrees, which has been so interesting, and starting businesses

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:19:22

or, you know, doing things on their own or becoming a TikTok influencer, like

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:19:25

there are so many paths to create a life that works for you that works for your

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:19:31

personality, that works for your finances.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:19:33

And there's also no reason.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:19:36

For you to blindly get a college degree if it's not necessary for your field

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:19:42

or, and you and I have both seen people do this, uh, to continue going to

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:19:47

school for higher education, because you automatically equate it with higher

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:19:52

wages and you need to do the math on.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:19:55

Okay, cool.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:19:55

I've gotten my bachelor's.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:19:57

That will make me X, Y, Z in this field.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:20:00

And for a lot of jobs do not get me wrong.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:20:02

I have had to have a bachelor's degree as a check.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:20:05

In completely unrelated fields at a lot of places, which is a frustrating

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:20:09

sticking point for me, but I had it, but it's a gatekeeping exercise.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:20:13

And then if I go to look at a master's and I've toyed with the masters so

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:20:16

many times, cause I love school, it wasn't gonna help me in what I needed.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:20:21

I had the real world experience.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:20:22

What I was doing did not require a master's degree and it wasn't like

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:20:27

the cost benefit was not worth it

Brock: 00:20:29

I think especially in our industry, you know, in finance,

Brock: 00:20:32

accounting tax, whatever it may be, um, we all go through school and we

Brock: 00:20:37

learn everything conceptually, and then we start and it's a completely

Brock: 00:20:42

different world once you're out there.

Brock: 00:20:44

And you, you do realize that sometimes.

Brock: 00:20:47

Um, and you know, I'm not speaking for anything specifically, but that education

Brock: 00:20:51

that you, um, you got isn't as applicable.

Brock: 00:20:54

Um, and I think that you're completely right.

Brock: 00:20:56

Like, I think it's, we still are much a merit based society as far as our

Brock: 00:21:01

levels and, um, how employment goes, but we are steadily opening other doors

Brock: 00:21:08

outside of just secondary education.

Brock: 00:21:11

And, you know, as we change and we grow in everyth.

Brock: 00:21:15

people are getting educations overseas and some people are going into different

Brock: 00:21:19

trades and everything like that.

Brock: 00:21:21

And I think I more power to 'em do not just incur the debt just to incur it.

Brock: 00:21:26

You know, but if, if it is necessary, then I, I I'm for it completely.

Brock: 00:21:32

Um, it, it just really depends on your industry.

Brock: 00:21:35

And I, again, I think just getting inform.

Brock: 00:21:38

And figuring out what you wanna do and talking to other people in that

Brock: 00:21:42

field, maybe 10 years, your senior, 20 years, your senior, um, and just

Brock: 00:21:46

kind of getting their run on things.

Brock: 00:21:48

But, you know, we are changing all the time, too.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:21:51

Yeah, I, I think that's the biggest thing, right?

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:21:53

Is just like your personal financial journey, your personal, you know,

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:21:58

education or your career path or all of that feeds into it.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:22:01

And so a trade school may be perfect for you.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:22:05

My dad was an electrician for his entire career.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:22:07

He made great money.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:22:08

He knew exactly what came with it.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:22:10

Like he was very well versed in it, and it was, we're gonna say stable with

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:22:14

quotes, like any trade, depending on the economy may or may not be stable, but

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:22:18

it allowed him a really great living.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:22:20

And there are other people that, you know, my mom didn't have to get

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:22:24

her bachelor's until just recently.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:22:26

And she's been a nurse for 35 years.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:22:30

And for her, that was a really low barrier to entry to a career that

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:22:34

had a pretty good financial payoff.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:22:36

And I think being able to find something that you want, that,

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:22:39

you know, ven diagram, right.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:22:40

You're interested in it.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:22:41

You're good at it.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:22:42

And it pays what you need.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:22:44

And that may be college that may be, you know, becoming a medical doctor, which

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:22:48

incurs a lot of debt, but also comes with generally a much higher earning potential

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:22:53

and some really fantastic loan options.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:22:55

Like there are some really cool things for, you know, medical

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:22:58

doctors when they go through school.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:23:00

And you could also do trade school.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:23:01

You could also do no school.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:23:03

You could also, you know, become a technician, do something in between.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:23:05

Like there are so many options.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:23:07

And I think the more that you learn about those and the more that you

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:23:10

figure out what works best for who you are, what your financial goals are.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:23:14

And.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:23:15

How you best function that you can then make an educated decision, but

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:23:19

taking funding out for any of those, there's nothing wrong with that.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:23:22

You know, taking a personal loan out to start your business

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:23:24

or using a credit card.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:23:25

Like it happens.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:23:26

We've I'm sure.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:23:27

Probably all done it.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:23:28

Take a credit card out and go do your thing.

Brock: 00:23:30

there are reasons and granted it's a little bit different,

Brock: 00:23:34

but the concept is the same.

Brock: 00:23:37

Debt is not bad.

Brock: 00:23:38

Necessarily, because we have these conglomerate corporations,

Brock: 00:23:41

they have to have debt.

Brock: 00:23:42

They want debt because it keeps them as a strong company.

Brock: 00:23:46

Debt gets you further, you know, um, most small businesses can't

Brock: 00:23:50

start without small business loans.

Brock: 00:23:51

You know, we don't all have that rich grandpa.

Brock: 00:23:54

and, you know, so I think that pulling out debt, but being informed about

Brock: 00:23:58

what your debt, the debt that you're getting yourself into is very important.

Brock: 00:24:01

You never want to go to college for two years and end up finding

Brock: 00:24:05

out that you're not passionate about what you're doing now.

Brock: 00:24:07

You've incurred this debt and everything like that.

Brock: 00:24:10

Um, but like you mentioned, a lot of the passions that people have these days,

Brock: 00:24:15

college doesn't have to be a require.

Brock: 00:24:17

There are so many trades out there.

Brock: 00:24:19

I have so many friends that, um, you know, are not necessarily a college graduate or

Brock: 00:24:24

went into a completely different field.

Brock: 00:24:26

Two, three years after graduation.

Brock: 00:24:28

We're ever changing.

Brock: 00:24:29

There's always new things happening in the world.

Brock: 00:24:31

And as we're seeing we're, you know, even our nation alone is, is changing to where

Brock: 00:24:38

there's new jobs coming up all the time.

Brock: 00:24:40

Like, especially in the social media space.

Brock: 00:24:43

I mean, content creators, you're not gonna go.

Brock: 00:24:46

To college and learn a lot of the things, um, that you, that you're

Brock: 00:24:50

going to be able to apply, like a lot of the real world learning out there.

Brock: 00:24:54

And I think the reason that we have success in our careers

Brock: 00:24:57

is because of that hands on.

Brock: 00:24:59

So it wasn't all college.

Brock: 00:25:01

but of course, every, you know, everything is different and, and really just doing

Brock: 00:25:05

your, your research ahead of time, I think is probably the best tool.

Brock: 00:25:09

But to, to get back to the actual student loan payments and everything.

Brock: 00:25:14

I think free zone, you know, hold off as long as can get

Brock: 00:25:17

some of the other debt paid off.

Brock: 00:25:19

use this time as a flexible, a flexible time to kind of just revamp

Brock: 00:25:24

and, and, and get your plan together as to how you wanna approach, uh,

Brock: 00:25:28

you know, the next coming years.

Brock: 00:25:29

So that could be a little bit unexpected as to how the economy works.

Brock: 00:25:33

Mm.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:25:33

Absolutely.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:25:34

Well, and Brock, I wanted to touch on what you said because we didn't

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:25:36

talk about it at all, but there are a lot of people that I know.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:25:40

That went to school for something graduated, have student loan debt

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:25:44

and are not working in that field.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:25:46

And there is a lot of shame or should haves.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:25:50

Um, you know, I, I went to school for this.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:25:51

I should be in this field.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:25:52

I should be doing this.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:25:53

I shouldn't have done that.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:25:55

And I think that if that's you and you're listening right now, and you

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:25:59

are satisfied with the career path that you are in at this point in time

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:26:03

that we need to forgive ourselves.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:26:07

any of the stories we have around those student loans, because

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:26:11

those student loans were a tool.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:26:13

I'm sure that you grew and developed as a person during that time.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:26:16

You learned what you did and didn't want.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:26:18

And I think that if we look at that instead of a failure or something to be

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:26:21

ashamed about, because it's absolutely not, we look at that as something that

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:26:25

was a barometer to let us know, you know, what we wanna do more of, or less of.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:26:30

And I know that that is something.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:26:35

That needs to be talked about more often because I, you know,

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:26:38

everyone's on and on millennials have avocado toast and $5 lattes and

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:26:43

student loans and everything else.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:26:47

and I think it's time that we just drop all of that shit.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:26:51

And finally do what makes you happy.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:26:52

And do you know, I'm not saying like go to Bora tomorrow and spend $5,000 a week when

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:26:58

you don't have it to spend, but like go by the latte, absolve yourself of the shame

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:27:03

that came with, you know, going to school for a degree you're not using right now.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:27:07

As long as you are making forward progress in whatever forward

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:27:10

progress looks like to you.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:27:11

I'm like who the fuck else cares?

Brock: 00:27:13

Exactly.

Brock: 00:27:14

I could not agree more.

Brock: 00:27:16

Absolutely.

Brock: 00:27:17

We you and I even, and I hope, you know, I, I really think that this is changing.

Brock: 00:27:22

We're told go to high school, go do your sat acts, get into a good college, get

Brock: 00:27:29

your college degree, go to your career.

Brock: 00:27:32

That is not the path anymore, necessarily.

Brock: 00:27:34

It is a path, but it doesn't have to be the only path I knew and was told

Brock: 00:27:39

from a very early age when I understood schooling and what college really was.

Brock: 00:27:45

This is the path you follow.

Brock: 00:27:46

And I really am so happy to see that the newer generations and the younger

Brock: 00:27:52

generations are embracing that, that doesn't have to be everybody's

Brock: 00:27:55

path, that the world is changing.

Brock: 00:27:57

And if you don't wanna do college, or if you did go to college and you, like

Brock: 00:28:02

you said, are in a different career path in everything more than, okay,

Brock: 00:28:06

it's way more critical that you're doing what you're passionate about.

Brock: 00:28:10

Even if it's not something that makes you the absolute most money

Brock: 00:28:12

in the world, passion is what is gonna matter at the end of the.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:28:17

absolutely.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:28:17

I couldn't agree more.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:28:18

Well, Brock thank you.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:28:20

I'm sure you will be on again in the near future.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:28:23

For everyone listening.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:28:25

We have a really exciting group program coming out called money mavens.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:28:29

If you go to confident money, podcast.com, it'll link directly to that.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:28:33

It's going to be covering all of the things that you wish you would've learned

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:28:37

in high school, like how to read your tax return, how to prepare for a recession.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:28:41

you know, how to understand your retirement, how to get

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:28:43

started, where to start all of those things that just can feel.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:28:47

So exhausting.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:28:48

And especially if you are neuro divergent, or if you just, this

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:28:52

isn't your forte, we're here to help.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:28:55

And we're setting it at a really, really low monthly price because we

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:28:59

want this to be super accessible.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:29:01

So check it out.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:29:02

We are launching it on.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:29:04

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Katelyn Magnuson: 00:29:07

And so there's gonna be a special surprise for anyone that signs up

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:29:10

during the first week that it is out.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:29:13

So make sure to check it out and sign up.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:29:15

And then up next, we have a mini season with Kyle C.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:29:18

Graves of win the house.

Katelyn Magnuson: 00:29:19

You love talking all about home loans and what you need to know to best prepare.